The elephant in the room

[expuppy]

I will miss the old board but I am hoping most of the crew comes over here. I do NOT have bad things to say about RH, just the opposite. They have been very good to me. I do think its an extraordinarily bad idea for them to run the board though. I am concerned that they took it over in secret and that we were not all notified and maybe even consulted about it. Had we been consulted, no doubt one of the concerns would have been impeded flow of information, which appears at least possible given the deleted posts and banned members. I do NOT condone stealing someone else's ideas and I always tried very hard to truthfully refer people to RH to get their parts. Without them, I would not have the car i currently have.

It would have been different if they would have some sort of governance to assure that the admin power is used as little and as wisely as possible. Possibly set up a moderator committee chosen partially by the members that would need to review decisions to ban members and delete posts. The idea that a commercial enterprise is has omnipotent control ( thats unchecked power for those educated in the South like me) over the board, leaves me concerned that mistakes will be made. I was further concerned when i saw the angst level rising and nothing was done for several days other than to hide behind an Admin nickname and not pull some of the board members aside and ask for help & support.

The board is not the software or the admin or even the graphics. The board is the people and its the people of that board that made it home for me. I am hoping this one feels that way in a few weeks also.

[speedracing944]

What is really a shame is the wealth of recorded knowledge is now controlled by people who have a vested interest in censoring material they feel would hurt their business.

I believe in good customer service buy actually providing it. Now they have the power to censor any and all problems people had with their products and customer support.

Hopefully this here community grows into what the other one once was.

Speedy:)

[carlege]

What is really a shame is the wealth of recorded knowledge is now controlled by people who have a vested interest in censoring material they feel would hurt their business.

I believe in good customer service buy actually providing it. Now they have the power to censor any and all problems people had with their products and customer support.

Hopefully this here community grows into what the other one once was.

Speedy:)

Copy and paste good friend copy and paste. Now as a group you can take all the fact of building a Hybrid Porsche and consolidate them into a tech section.

[craighardy]

I'll have Ryan set up a tech section.

[carlege]

I'll have Ryan set up a tech section.

Sometimes moving on isnt a bad thing. Good luck guys. Im just here to look at the cool cars. And i dont have the Dough or technical experience to turn my 951 into the monster you all have

[Porch]

Yeah, i agree. I bought their parts and defended their quality of work...but taking over a BB is just plain wrong.

If they had an issue with what was being posted, they should have asked (Doug?) to delete it. Taking control of the board is not good business ethics.

[Dawgz83948]

Sometimes moving on isnt a bad thing. Good luck guys. Im just here to look at the cool cars. And i dont have the Dough or technical experience to turn my 951 into the monster you all have

Don't listen to carlege he's insane!!! :D:p

[originalspaceman]

What is really a shame is the wealth of recorded knowledge is now controlled by people who have a vested interest in censoring material they feel would hurt their business....

I'm actually making an entire offline copy of the old site right now. This way if it's ever shutdown or reworked, we'll have a copy of all of our previous intellectual property and contribution.

[carlege]

Don't listen to carlege he's insane!!! :D:p

Yeah and an Ass! :D

[Dawgz83948]

I'm actually making an entire offline copy of the old site right now. This way if it's ever shutdown or reworked, we'll have a copy of all of our previous intellectual property and contribution.

Excellent...... Then we need to nuke their mysql database..... :eek: JK.

[dallas]

As I said on theold thread "some computer saavy" person should download the the info from old site. WAY TO GO ORIGINAL SPACEMAN! And a big thanks from me! My conversion should start this week. Now I need to learn how to post pics and start a gallery. Alex :)

[Porch]

Two little tidbits from me:

1: I LOVE the image for this site! (up at the top...)
2: I like vBulletin (the board software) a lot more as well. A lot more "modern" than phpBB, IMO.

I wasn't a huge contributor on the old site, but i really am sorry to see it go. Here's to the new board, though! :)

[marc a]

I too was astonished at the take over of the board. It is a shame, but we can, like the bionic man, rebuild it and make it better.

Justin, is there a way of inserting the information being copied into this forum?

My gallery has a few "tutorials" based on RH failing parts that I would rather not lose or have to rebuild here.

Back in 2002 a group of about 12, including myself started a board for Porsche products because we were tired of the BS that was going on at R***list and P****** Parts. Unfortunately, that board now has 1300 members and thing have regressed so I don't spend anytime on the very board that I help start.

These things happen and as was pointed out above, it's the people that make up the board and we will continue as we have in the past. It will just be in a different place thanks to Craig and Ryan.

[v8carreragts]

Yea it is a shame. It is beginning to look like a company run board now already. What still bugs me is I asked specifically what item was a copy and what the pattent numbers were for the copied parts so i could look them up but I did not get an answer.

In my book that means 1. they are trying to eliminate any compeition and 2. there are no patents. The second of which i doubted all along. I'm sure a business like RH doesn't have the means to patent anything as it is a very expensive and drawn out proposition. Not that they have anything original enough to patent anyway. Questions were asked about how the C5 bellhousing was a copy of theirs without any real answer other than trying to step around the issue.

I asked which of their parts had detailed drawings posted and again got no answer.

[originalspaceman]

I too was astonished at the take over of the board. It is a shame, but we can, like the bionic man, rebuild it and make it better.

Justin, is there a way of inserting the information being copied into this forum?

My gallery has a few "tutorials" based on RH failing parts that I would rather not lose or have to rebuild here.

Back in 2002 a group of about 12, including myself started a board for Porsche products because we were tired of the BS that was going on at R***list and P****** Parts. Unfortunately, that board now has 1300 members and thing have regressed so I don't spend anytime on the very board that I help start.

These things happen and as was pointed out above, it's the people that make up the board and we will continue as we have in the past. It will just be in a different place thanks to Craig and Ryan.

The mirror just finished copying last night. I'll work with Craig and Ryan within the next couple of weeks on how to get it posted here.

[originalspaceman]

I LOVE the image for this site! (up at the top...)


I'm slightly concerned about keeping that image up there for too long. That picture has a copyright owned by Porsche... and Porsche doesn't take use of their "name" lightly.

[v8carreragts]

That will be great! Thanks to all.

[craighardy]

I'm slightly concerned about keeping that image up there for too long. That picture has a copyright owned by Porsche... and Porsche doesn't take use of their "name" lightly.

Yeah, me too. It will work for now but I'm working on doing something else. Maybe we can have rotating pics of members cars?

Craig

[Porch]

The other thing (and it IS minor) is that it says "hybridnines.com". Not really a big deal though :)

[craighardy]

Yeah, we couldn't find the #9 in that style font. hybridnines.com will also take you to this site though.

[944-LT1]

Wazzup! This board has a striking similarity to rennlist and when I see these colors and this format, I intuitivly throw on 2 flame suits. ...Are we RH free here I wonder.

Anyway, Great Job Craig and Ryan.

[Porch]

Keep it up on the other board, guys. Keep it up.

At this rate, they're all so busy keyboard warrioring away that it could be January 2012 before the next RH customer receives a set of headers.

Edit: p.s.--where is xschop on this board? Nobody has a way to contact him?

[skywalker01]

XSchop is on the other splinter board (I hope we reconsolidate under a single board again)

[craighardy]

Wazzup! This board has a striking similarity to rennlist and when I see these colors and this format, I intuitivly throw on 2 flame suits. ...Are we RH free here I wonder.

Anyway, Great Job Craig and Ryan.

Glad you found us! Haha....Don't worry no flame suits required.

I don't think anyone from RH has registered but I wouldn't mind if they did. Everybody is welcome to contribute to, but not moderate this forum.

Craig

[944-LT1]

Hey look at all of us old guys from the old board....were newbies again! makes me feel younger. :D

Cant believe we have to start all over again. Thats what kills me. :( All our jokes and banter... ROBOTMACHINES!!! We FORGOT about ROBOT!

Someones gonna have to go back in there for robotmachines....uh, ill have your back... just keep your head low and dont stop to lollygag...get in and get out....

[craighardy]

Cover me...I'm goin in!

[Tetzuoe]

alrighty, I made it over as well... go on a week long rally and this is what happens? oh and the new site is still blocked at work... the ONE THING this could have fixed. grrrr.

[gt1scca]

Hey guys,

I just finished work (I think) on our freebie, http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Come by and check us out...36 members so far, and the site is "Tyranny Free". Looks good over here Craig...Yo Marc, glad to see ya.

Hey MK...you can't accumulate posts counts from ALL the sites you're posting on! :p

GT1SCCA / Greg

[gt1scca]

[QUOTE=944-LT1;159]...ROBOTMACHINES!!! We FORGOT about ROBOT!/QUOTE]

Email sent.

[944-LT1]

Hey guys,

Hey MK...you can't accumulate posts counts from ALL the sites you're posting on! :p

GT1SCCA / Greg

:D Hahaha.

[gt1scca]

Some relaxing, bedtime-story type reading...
http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=31020#p31020

(unless it has already been deleted...)

[Porch]

Glad to see everyone else made it out alive :D

I do wish we could consolidate down to 1 board though...i just don't have the time to check two boards regularly, and searching on 2 would just be a pain!

[Tetzuoe]

agreed, if you guys decide on a single board let me know as im registered for both but only checking this site.

[expuppy]

i am only registered here. staying here unless we all decide to move to the other one. we really should merge the two.

[Turbobrat930]

I would also like to see both of the boards merge... But until that happens, I will try to check both...and if anyone needs any help... I will be here...

[expuppy]

I am only checking this board since i am not sure even where the other board is.

[expuppy]

I politely asked "admin" over at the PHB to remove my gallery. My fear is that a newbie will come in and see all of the cars in the gallery and think that PHB is the main site for conversion info and get discouraged at the lack of activity. Do you know what his response was? He asked WHY i wanted it removed!!!! Every dealing I have had with him has been confrontational, and I am a supporter of Renegade, lol. I thought about typing some drivel about how i was afraid I was giving away hybrid secrets and would get in trouble but eventually i pretty much told him to STFU and delete my gallery. Can you imagine Doug ever demanding answers from the members?

[craighardy]

That's not cool. So is he going to remove it?

[PorscheHybrids]

To be fair, expuppy did ask nicely. In replying "can I ask why?" I wasn't trying to be difficult, I just wanted to know what was going on. Our previous correspondence had been cordial, so it caught me by surprise when he went all Jerry Springer on me. See what I get for caring.

Anyway, for what it's worth it was promptly removed.

[expuppy]

Most people in here know me as a pretty nice guy, but may change their opinion after this post. I DID ask nicely, and the question about why i wanted to remove my gallery did NOT sound like someone who did it out of caring. Like most of "admin"'s posts, it came across in a condescending, "i am in charge" tone, which finally pushed me past my niceness. If i want my fucking car off the site, the proper response would be " of course, i will remove it" or " let me give you the password to your gallery and you can adjust it as you see fit", but not " why do you want to take it down". In my world, i dont need his care, concern or understanding to decide where i want my car to be seen. I dont need his permission. I put my car on DOUG'S board, not ADMIN's board and frankly dont want me or my car associated with him. I dont know if mr. admin has a little power high at controlling a now defunct board that use to be the picture of use vitality. I am a bit bitter, like many of us that he managed to singlehandedly kill our little community and force it split into two pieces. Given that bitterness, I frankly dont feel compelled to answer any questions from him, and am a little concerned that he is over at our new home to read and respond to posts. If i see much of his ass over here, i wont be here much longer either.

[PorscheHybrids]

Yes, this all could have been handled better. No question about that.

How you could read all that into "Can I ask why?" is beyond me. If I was a power hungry tyrant then I certainly wouldn't have left links to the other boards up or weathered the flurry of criticism. I just want people to be civil, constructive and hopefully happy.

Everyone was welcome to stay, I even offered to let you specifically moderate the board early on. In fact, I asked repeatedly for a member in good standing to do just that. I fully supported it being vendor neutral and welcomed valid criticism. So, as much fun as it is to be sensational, lets not distort the facts. Had the board been moderated at all before, none of this would have happened. What went on wouldn't be tolerated on any well run board.

When you have someone say, "I agree with you, but you'll have to buy the board if you want anything done about it." it doesn't paint quite the same picture you do.

[bluehellfire666]

Had the board been moderated at all before, none of this would have happened. What went on wouldn't be tolerated on any well run board.


if i were you i would delete my account pretty quick...we still have yet to see patent numbers and guess what, i have my own drawings of motor mounts that worked great for me, that i designed myself with a ruler, compass, right angle and welder...they are almost identical to the motor mounts you make, yet i made them myself and would have NO problem selling them to anyone if i wanted to make more...

lets see the numbers man.

[gt1scca]

...See what I get for caring...
See what you get for F-ing up two (2) boards? [Edited for obvious reasons...] ..You don't even respect the very customers that attempt to defend you! Go finish killing your OWN Goddamned board!

Jesus Christ...you STILL don't have a clue...

CHIRP, CHIRP.

[craighardy]

If i see much of his ass over here, i wont be here much longer either.

I hope it doesn't come to that! You are a very valuable member and I wouldn't want to see you go.

In everyone's defense, I have to say that this thread IS on topic and I don't feel the need to edit it. I will not allow this stuff to work its way into any of the other threads though. If some of you don't want to read this stuff, don't check this thread.

I will make sure this forum is a possitive and informative place to be, we need members like expuppy to ensure that this happens.

Craig

[expuppy]

craig,

I re-read what i had written and it sounded like a threat on my part to take my ball and go home, which is NOT the way i intended it to read. I apologize. I gotsta have my interaction with fellow conversion enthusiasts. Which brings me to my next revelation;

Mr. ADMIN has BANNED me from the PHB!!!! If i had ANY doubt as to how heavy-handed he might be in his new position of all powerful being of the board, that doubt is now removed. So apparently, fellow hybriders, one can be banned over there by disagreeing with them too, in addition to having the audicity to make one's own parts. I am sure there are OTHER ways to get banned over there and they may include;

failing to cheer UNLV at basketball
not agreeing with Mr. Admin's favorite color
deciding not to kiss his ass when he asks
failing to understand his esteemed position at a now defunct forum

What is REALLY rich is that i was one of RH's staunchest supporters ( still am, but not a supporter of ADMIN per se). I am SURE that Scott had more than a few calls that started, " i saw joe and his car at the track and i wanted to talk to you about kits". I ran the cannonball with RH emblazoned across the hood and on the fender wells so that the thousands of pics of my engine bay had a RH decal in plain site. And now, I am banned from the site that they covertly took over. Life is pretty strange eh?

I am emotionally wrecked not being able to go over the PHB and see all my friends and read all the posts........wait, whats that? ......there are no posts?.....all my friends left?......i guess i might survive after all. I may even be able to sit on my own and take nourishment in the near future.

Have a great Friday all. (even you Admin, you too. did you select a uniform yet? i am thinking that Khadaffi General suit would be good as you sit and decide who next to ban, and which posts to delete...... careful with the sword though, wouldnt want you stabbing your toe or something).

[PorscheHybrids]

You were not banned, you said, quite clearly, that you did not want you or your car associated with the board anymore. I removed your gallery, and disabled the account. How is that heavy handed? If you'd like to constructively contribute to the board then I'll be happy to re-enable it. Just let me know.

I have the archives of everything that happened on PorscheHybrids. They did a great job of making it perfectly clear what they were doing. The owner of the board agreed and offered a solution.

Most of these squeeky wheels were the ones involved. The others just followed them over here. If Craig wants to let people do whatever they want, then that's his call. Heck, why not make a sub forum so they have a place to post the specs of existing parts and offer copies for sale. I doubt Craig would allow that, but hey, I've been wrong before.

[expuppy]

Spin that however you want. I did not ask to have my account disabled. I think we all understand the message you sent by doing that. Dont reinstate it. I will post over here, but thanks for the offer.

[Dawgz83948]

Nothing improper was done the PHB. You guys don't like the fact that designs were on the public domain that would threaten your business. Acting in the way you guyz did, did not help your companies appearance, and if anything is making more people machine their own parts and find ways NOT to use you guys. I would not be surprised if your parts started mimicking the diagrams that you guys took down.

Hey at least you know how the Japanese general felt at the begining of WWII when he said that he feared that they "Awake a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve".

[944-LT1]

It makes me sick that your are using our beloved boards name as your username here and who knows where else. :mad:

You didnt earn that dude.

What coerced you to come over here? Were all leaving you alone...now youre following us?!?! We have all stopped the yelling, name calling, fighting on your (OUR) board....whats up? Looks like your looking for more bashing or something....or youre just trying to seal the deal on RH altogether? You have to know by now that all this crap is hurting your business right??? Its probably starting to feel like your high school years all over again huh.

Just go back to your (OUR) site please.


Joe.....you still got me baby! :D

[expuppy]

I am assuming we ALL still have each other but over here on this board. But i DO have an idea/solution?

The way i see it, we are NOT going to post on the PHB which pretty much makes it a bad investment for RH. Having three boards is NOT a plus for the conversion crowd. I have no idea what they paid for our board, but it cant be worth all that much in its present state. If their purpose for purchasing it was to monitor content and make sure their IP was not being abused, having the other two boards will probably not help that be accomplished. So my idea is this; have RH quote a price to sell the board to us. Hell I might be able to buy it myself, but i dont want to run it. We could buy it, have a little conference call and figure out who we would all trust to run it and merge the best parts of the two (pardon me, i cant help myself here) RENEGADE boards that have emerged back into the original one. We could have a little oversight group that has to approve deletes and bans, and that group as far as i am concerned could INCLUDE RH to hear their side of things when the copying and reverse engineering crosses the line.

Anybody wanna weigh in on my idea? Disclaimer: it IS friday and i have beer on fridays so maybe i am just buzzed and its a dumb as hell idea?

[944-LT1]

I totally agree though. I want more than anything to have our board back and owned by a group instead of one.

I'll throw down on it. But, something tells me they arent selling. But then again, i think youre right in that having one neutral forum is better than having two spin-off forums hating on them for what they've done. But then again (this could go on forever hahaha) they may not be able to understand that point considering what they have been doing (or not understanding) lately.

Ill go to PHB and PM them and see what gives.

[expuppy]

Well the obvious question they will ask is, " will PHB die and be just like the old RH forum?". I honestly dont know the answer to that, but judging from the people calling me and such, I cant say that it will ever be teaming with life over there. They can take a wait and see approach but every week that goes by, if it dies more and more, it will lose more value than it has. Also, as we all get comfortable and populate the other two boards, our desire to go back to PHB will diminish. It was just my Killians-inspired idea to correct a couple of mistakes and get back to chummin all in the same place. Again, no idea what Doug was paid for it, but it is, IMHO, damaged to some point now and may be terminal if something isnt done in the near future. Not to mention the PR hit that Scott's company is taking as a result.

[944-LT1]

Well how much does a board, like the one we want and in its current condition, usually go for?

[expuppy]

Man, i have NO idea. Given how quickly the other two sprang up in useful form ( NOT taking anything away from the creators, mad props guys!!!) it cant be that much money since the only thing worth much is the name and that may not be much, since most people google porsch hybrids and as more people find these two boards, they will appear at the top of the hits list. I emailed my new addy to Scott at RH but have not heard from him. He is either busy or I am on his shitlist now, lol. He is a smart guy. I am guessing he will look at the suggestion logically and make up his mind accordingly.

[PorscheHybrids]

I knew there was a reason I didn't get all worked up and start calling people names.

Scott is teaching an instructor training course out of state this weekend. I was going to make a joke that the monthly payments for the board were about the same as a small house; but then I remembered the Vegas real estate market and it's more of a sad reality than a joke.

We all know this is not about the money, but it wasn't a great sum. I would like to see it returned to it's former glory as much as anyone (minus a few indiscretions of course). We weren't out to buy the board. It caught us by surprise as much as anyone.

expuppy's proposed method of running the board is basically what I was trying to accomplish all along. I even asked him to moderate it before it went completely backwards. I help administrate other boards and believe it or not I'm not a tyrant. I've never censored anyone. Of course they aren't quite the handful you guys are :rolleyes:

So, give it a little time and we'll try to work it out. My wife is getting tired of me coming home and kicking the dog, yelling at the baby, and saying I wish Al Gore never invented the Internet.

[Turbobrat930]

I am assuming we ALL still have each other but over here on this board. But i DO have an idea/solution?

The way i see it, we are NOT going to post on the PHB which pretty much makes it a bad investment for RH. Having three boards is NOT a plus for the conversion crowd. I have no idea what they paid for our board, but it cant be worth all that much in its present state. If their purpose for purchasing it was to monitor content and make sure their IP was not being abused, having the other two boards will probably not help that be accomplished. So my idea is this; have RH quote a price to sell the board to us. Hell I might be able to buy it myself, but i dont want to run it. We could buy it, have a little conference call and figure out who we would all trust to run it and merge the best parts of the two (pardon me, i cant help myself here) RENEGADE boards that have emerged back into the original one. We could have a little oversight group that has to approve deletes and bans, and that group as far as i am concerned could INCLUDE RH to hear their side of things when the copying and reverse engineering crosses the line.

Anybody wanna weigh in on my idea? Disclaimer: it IS friday and i have beer on fridays so maybe i am just buzzed and its a dumb as hell idea?

Expuppy, I have never met you, but someday I hopefully will. There are a core group of guys on the old board, that hopefully have switched over to these two boards here. Those core group are what make up about 90% of the post on the board. Then you have the countless other guys who lurk, watching, reading, and learning about the conversion process, the parts, the money involved, etc, etc. Those guys will eventually go to what ever board has the most traffic.

While your idea has merit, I am TOTALLY AGAINST having any board where RH has a foothold. ( whether of not its in an admin, or boot capacity, or not). I feel that RH has completely screwed themselves and any chance from me to have a reconciliation. Even though they have not hurt me finanically in any way, and I do not own any of their parts.... its their whole additude that kills it for me. To be perfectly honest, I dont even want them on these new boards as a member!!! There is a place for people with bad business practices and bad business ethic, the unemployment line!

So someone takes a look at a RH part, or maybe he doesnt and has never seen a part from them before, but has been turned off by the RH pricing and lack of ale-a-carte products. So, said individual goes to his workshop, designs his own part, works out all the problems, and since the individual is not a huge company who cant afford advertising, sells it to some of his fellow buddies on the web. Word gets around, more people get involved, the hobby grows. More people are completing thier projects because it cosats MUCH less if they were to have gone to RH for the parts. That sounds like good ole American business! The weak die off, and the person or company who designs a better part, wins! RH has no patents, and they simply do not care if their products could be inproved or not.... If they cared, we would have seen better parts...at WAY better prices...

Do you also think that if a person wanted to buy just one part, say the adapter, that it would be better for business for RH to sell just one part? Or do you think they should stick to their business model, and only offer kits?.... Even if they lose the sale... To me, thats just badd business procatice, and RH should lose for it. Then, to come and buy out the board, in an attempt to censor other people??COME ON!!!! wake up, all that did was piss more people off.

Sorry, got on a rant there..... I say...NO, I dont want RH in any part of my life, unless its part of my sons dirty diapers that I throw out!!!

I know I am not a paying member, and I know I have not contributed much, but I will...once my project gets on track... which is now.... So, I know I do not carry much weight, but you asked for opinions...there is mine.... sorry for ranting!!! PORH!!!!!

[gt1scca]

I have the archives of everything that happened on PorscheHybrids. They did a great job of making it perfectly clear what they were doing. The owner of the board agreed and offered a solution.

Most of these squeeky wheels were the ones involved. The others just followed them over here. If Craig wants to let people do whatever they want, then that's his call. Heck, why not make a sub forum so they have a place to post the specs of existing parts and offer copies for sale. I doubt Craig would allow that, but hey, I've been wrong before.

No copyright protection, no patent, hmmm. Must have been a "dirt-bag move". You say you want all of this to correct itself...Why not practice what you're harping on, and just leave it alone? RH F'd up, you claim we (xschop and myself) did also...but now you threaten archives? Eh, so what. All you have there is something that would be considered competition. Maybe you even got your feelings hurt. Waaa. Suck it up, Nancy! Everyone saw it once...even if someone had a part to "reverse engineer", don't you know how the Patent office qualifies a part? "The specifications must not be readily obtained..."

I have all my posts, most of xschop's posts, and my PM [.csv] files on my external hard drive...I quoted ONE in an email to you. The only thing you can legally do is bash me publicly. As far as I can tell, I have some support from the community. Not everyone agrees on what was right or wrong, but I'm not fishing for a congeniality award. If any one or group sees my posts as helpful, great. If you don't like it, S-up and forget about it. Sue me...do whatever it takes to feel satisfied.

But, do not lie about some great morality you seem to have, especially when your actions tell all. And how can you "morally" justify turning on the few supportive customers you had left? You are not helping your case at all. Now maybe you're starting to feel what your "customers" have felt for years.

I can drop it if you can...seems you just want to pick it until it gets infected.

Some business ethic...

[expuppy]

Ok boys, lets ease up on the hammers and talk about this like grownups. If RH retains sole or even substantial control of the boards, there is no way most of us are going back there, so i think its a given that someone or some group trusted by the conversion community needs to own and moderate ( notice the word MODERATE there, not control, not administrate) the contents of the board. This next item may be tougher for some. If it becomes a free-for-all where we draw up RH developed parts and offer them up for free ( not saying that is what happened but its feasible at some degree), there is no way RH is going to relinquish control of the content. I still firmly believe that the conversion community is better with RH being a viable, successful entity. I know many of you could give a gnats ass about them and that is the struggle that we as a community must wrestle to the ground. Whats good for the whole is that RH has SOME say it what it believes may be infringement on its intellectual property but our community should have in place a system of governance that balances the RH financial interests and our community's creative and frugalality. I have no issue involving the RH guys, the RH hater guys and the moderates like me who are only interested in solving the situation of having the community split two or three ways.

The RH haters may say screw you ,joe, i want nothing to do with them. RH may say screw you joe, the boards cant allow our work to be given away. To both i say, this can be worked out so that everyone gets most of what they want, not all, but most. Here would be my group to develop what the rules and governance would be; craighardy, xschop, lt1, a rep from RH, spreedracing944. GT1scca would be a benefit too but i doubt he would do it. This group could hash through what is and is not intellectual property and come up with a process to deal with improper posts and improper posters should they surface. With the kind of money that is being discussed, two or three of us could front that and then give the board to the group so that nobody was the sole owner.

I never saw Doug attempt to impede content except for the one time that Predator said he wouldnt take sex from Hillary, but other than that........

[PorscheHybrids]

The more of a mess this becomes the harder it is going to be to clean up. I am an enthusiast above all else. I have more converted porsches than any one person I know of. I've been doing this for almost 20 years. I rebuild transaxles, I build engines, and I do chassis development and fabrication. So I'm not some talking head corporate spokesman.

Having been around when boards fractured in the past, it definitely hurts the community. The conversion community is smaller than most, so it's even worse. If everyone can be civil I have no doubt this could all be worked out to everyone’s satisfaction.

There is a lot of talent and passion among the various factions. If we can manage to turn this around and work together everyone will be the better for it. That also means everyone will have to compromise to some degree. That doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It can be a win-win if everyone works together.

Renegade does not want to have a stranglehold on the board. It just needs to be run by fair minded people that want to see everyone get along. No one should be excluded as long as they are willing to play nice. That’s what being part of a community is all about. That’s how virtually every successful board is run. We just need to figure out how to work towards a common goal instead of against each other. I respect talent and hard work regardless of where it comes from.

Doing engine conversions is already a tough sell to many Porsche owners. Fighting amongst ourselves only serves to reinforce any reservations they might have. If we ever want to see converted cars more in the main stream and their values go up we can’t be a group that people don’t want to belong to. If you read everything that's been posted recently would you want to convert your car?

We need to have a meeting of the minds. If someone wants to set up a private forum where the key players have access that might work.

[gt1scca]

GT1scca would be a benefit too but i doubt he would do it...I need some fantastic motivation to convince me to forget the wiring, web graphics, and other "non-discretion" items I had posted. Damn, I worked for a year [there] just to help the conversion community.

Yes, I am cocky.
Yes, I am good at what I do.
Yes, I taunted RH.

What happened may turn out to be a positive thing...more stringent parts development, improvement on existing parts, and some new ideas.

You got called out, I got called out...so here we are. Bickering like a bunch of old women, with no resolution in sight. I can say this reasonably...I will NOT be part of a forum that has an RH employee at the helm. You have some ground to make up here, Steve [and Scott].

Why not "fix" the RH [original] board? You have all the info you could possibly need to make a HUGE difference there...

BTW, I'm calm, and can be somewhat reasonable...Got any other solution suggestions? I'll consider contributing in an agreed upon capacity...I don't think 944Hybrids is going anywhere, though. It seems to be running fine...

[expuppy]

lets target, say , wednesday? for a conference call where we can call each other assholes and then get about figuring out how to resolve this little swamp we find ourselves in? I can set up the call and just need a way to conference everyone in. I believe i may have a call in number that people can use. Will post more about that monday. Seriously, lets try to put the emotions and the past on the back burner and keep the prize in sight; PHB back where everyone's concerns are addressed and where everyone is comfortable that it is properly moderated.

[944-LT1]

I like the sub-section forum idea. Someone sets it up and we all get in there and hash it all out. Greg and XS have to be there as well though becuase it all started there. Their voices as well as RH need to be heard together to get a full picture. The diagrams and ideas need to be addressed. XS DID do his own work...

"To set the record straight, I never once held a Renegade Hybrids part in my hands. I designed my own C5 Bellhousing Adapter plate CORRECTLY after doing hours of research literally going to many Junk Yards hunting down 4 different Corvette C5 Torque Tubes and using micrometers and Dial indication equipment to get the Proper Torque tube shaft to C5 bellhousing pin relation measurements."

So I dont see how we can have a board were he is not allowed to post or sell these things. I remember this very well on PHB. He DID do all this. I remember because while that thread was developing, I did hours of searching to try and help him. Whenever I was at a pick-and-pull, I would first ask if any vettes were there just to get at a TT. So no, he did his own work, came up with a design and machined it.

I do admit. at one point early in the thread (and I dont think XS was a member yet) I was chanting that the C5 housing would be perfect for the swap. And I did notice that thats exactly what RH was using but how is that bad? If RH is using a chevy bellhousing then how come XS and Greg cannot?

We should all get into a forum and really get it all out.

I just really want all of us back together....i know....cheesy. :p

[gt1scca]

I'll say it first...before it comes from anywhere else. I HAVE held an RH part, and thought "this could be machined differently"...I also verified dimensions, although not to the extent xschop did. I even said, when I posted the drawing of the C5 plate..."within .004", etc. I did not say, "Hey guys, I'm selling these, they are perfect".

I know RH doesn't like it, but it was done with the purpose defined by PorscheHybrids.com - [I]"Building a better mousetrap, for less."

So, this is how I'm thanked for the "ethical" things I did for PHB? Jeez...Piss RH off, or threaten their "kit", and you get the treatment. Heck, you can be a loyal, supporting customer and still get stabbed in the back!

I build a forum to replace the DEAD one [...up and running in a day!], and what happens? You want to disolve it and Hybrid9s, and go back to Gestapoville? Eh, 944Hybrids is free...

Yea, I'll talk...but be sitting down when you call.

It's never gonna be the same, boys...

[944hybrids]

Let me add to what Greg just said. I just came over from a link that was posted on my board.Yes, I said MY BOARD. Only Craig has ever contacted me about bringing the 2 boards together. I passed word to him that it probably was not going to happen. I can tell right here and now, That it won't happen. I have given, and will continue to give the guy's free rein over at 944hybrids. I don't restrict them from posting anything that is informational. We have already put up just a bout every piece needed for a conversion, either LTx or LSx motors. As of today we even found the oil pan. Which I believe is the final piece of the puzzle. Oh and it's not a copy of RH's. Might be the same supplier though! We welcome all to our board and invite you to come and look for yourself. I think we have the people there that made PH what it WAS, and we will soon be just as informative or even better.

Thank you
944hybrids
Admin

[mikeyqs10]

I don’t know if people remember me from the old board. I am the guy from SoCal that had a specialty automotive machine shop build a 944 adapter kit for myself and one of their employees that I knew from the S10 transplant world. I also have a S10 with a LQ9.My agreement with them was that they could use whatever I learned or they learned to possibly market a bare bones kit for the professional type car builder. I even made the agreement to keep their name out of web forums as it is well know and they didn’t want a deluge of squirrel calls as they are primarily in the high end dirt track drive train business, as well as making parts for others to resale.
I was also the guy that borrowed the plastic small block Chevy mockup engine and test fitted in to the LS1 OEM housing. Got to give credit where credit is due it was not my idea it think it was 944-Lt1’s.
I posted my build progress and got several good suggestions with the fine details like wiring pin outs and fuel line work around for the 944. I even passed California emissions first time out with some modded CARB badged headers. During the course of my build the machine shop had already been working on bare kits to put a LS1 in a Boxster. Even got to ride in a mule car that their customer had at the shop.
Fast forward to the completion of my build, which went quick thanks many good unbiased suggestions. I threw a post out there to see if there was interest in a bare bones kit approach. It got somewhat shot down due to the foothold Renegade appeared to have. So abiding by the rules of the board I posted their web site in the vendor recommendation section. I have no stake in the company whatsoever other than being a guinea pig for their 944 parts. And by the way I had right around $1800 total in the transplant parts including headers.
I had not been very active on the old board other than to report my first 10k miles of trouble free daily California commute driving.
The company making the kits has an exclusive deal with several car builders to use their parts for in-house conversions and to resale to other professional builders. From my understanding they have produced more than 100 kits for the 44 and 50 some for the Boxster, with more then 60 944’s running on the track or street. With around 35 or so Boxster’s alive in various stages. I actually know of one of the shops in Orange that has a back log of Boxster refurbed turn keys. Pretty damn cool stuff.
So what does this all mean? I checked the board after a couple PM’s when Admin took it over. Made a comment or two and guess what my build thread, the one about a different approach to a kit and the web site thread were all deleted. The engineering company could care less, but I think it is pretty chicken sh** that the new owners not only deleted the threads with original design parts in them but any threads that even hinted at another parts builder. For remnants to my vendor thread see it under “944 Barebones Kit Vendor (http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2256&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)” Shady really shady. No warning no nothing just BAM deleted and banned.
I will say that the former owner of the board is laughing all the way to the bank with whatever he got out of Renegade because from my point of view all they did was shoot themselves in the foot. Great work from a DJ.

[Jim7]

I think the interference on the other board by the new owners is so far out of line that I will not have anything to do with any of their endeavors. If I have anything to offer the 944/968 hybrid community it will be on this board. Insofar as looking for assistance I see the mentors are here already.

[944hybrids]

mikeyqs10,

Have taken a look at our site http://944hybrids.forumotion.com (http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/), it's were the info is at now and you could elaborate on you ideas there without fear of them being deleted again. I believe this board is in negotiations with RH so the can come here and ruin this board too.

[expuppy]

hey, you guys can do what you want with regard to which board you visit. I am not IN negotiations with RH at all. I am just saying there is the chance that we can get the old board out of their control and into ours. a dead board is useless to them. three partial boards for the conversion community doesnt seem to great either. If we get the PHB control back, everyone will be welcome there. I will not moderate it as i have too quick a temper and think that a group would have to approve any deletes or bans. Dont fool yourself, RH is on both of the new boards also and probably do what it thinks it needs to do to protect its property. The question will be , "what IS RH property and what is us cobbling together parts to build great cars?". I wish there could be less chest beating and more substantive discussion about the matter of the PHB.

[v8carreragts]

Mr. ADMIN has BANNED me from the PHB!!!! If i had ANY doubt as to how heavy-handed he might be in his new position of all powerful being of the board, that doubt is now removed. So apparently, fellow hybriders, one can be banned over there by disagreeing with them too, in addition to having the audicity to make one's own parts.

There is a lot of talent and passion among the various factions. If we can manage to turn this around and work together everyone will be the better for it. That also means everyone will have to compromise to some degree. That doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It can be a win-win if everyone works together.

Renegade does not want to have a stranglehold on the board. It just needs to be run by fair minded people that want to see everyone get along. No one should be excluded as long as they are willing to play nice. That’s what being part of a community is all about. That’s how virtually every successful board is run. We just need to figure out how to work towards a common goal instead of against each other. I respect talent and hard work regardless of where it comes from.


PorscheHybrids, How is this fair? I can't imagion any reason for Expuppy to be banned. After reading this I don't see why anyone would want to be at that board anymore. And "no one should be excluded as long as they are willing to play nice?" I don't see "Playing nice" here, I see someone strong arming everything. I see a one sided administration that will continue to do what ever they want for their own end, what ever that is.

I am an enthusiast above all else. I have more converted porsches than any one person I know of. I've been doing this for almost 20 years. I rebuild transaxles, I build engines, and I do chassis development and fabrication. So I'm not some talking head corporate spokesman.


This I don't understand. What difference does it make that you can and have done this? I also have converted Porsches, and build transaxles and am an enthusiast, I do chassis development and fabrication, and build street rods and have restored muscle cars, I am also a mechanical engineer. But I wouldn't have banned anyone there. It stll looks to me like RH is trying to eliminate competition. All that has been done is to increase it.

You would think that history would teach people. What happened when the VCR came out? The movie companies tried to stop people from copying movies and guess what, they couldn't. Then the music companies tried (and are still trying) to stop people from sharing music. What happened? It is spreading so fast now that the music companies are going crazy. You can patent something but the minute you get the patent someone else reverse engineers it and finds a way to make the same thing without infringing on your patent. You can copyright something and people copy it and use it against the copyright. Schools do it all the time now that there is a thing called a photo copier.


If you read everything that's been posted recently would you want to convert your car?


My answer to this is a big YES! I would still want to convert my car. Although I would not even think of using RH now. I would read what was posted and see how the board was destroyed by a takeover, find the new boards and buy the things offered there. (if I wasn't able to make my own parts)

It seems that every time I read this thread someone elso has been banned there. For the total time that board has existed no one that I know of had been banned until now. Now in a very short time many have.

I don't know why anyone would want to try to "fix" the old board. I was keeping an open mind but the more I read the more I am turned off about it. I think the new boards are developing well and I think they should remain as is.

I wasn't going to remove anything from my album either but have deleted everything. I don't want any of my material used there. I am just disgusted with the whole thing. If they wanted to fix the old board they would need to restore the things that they deleted. Now I think it is beyond repair. I originally posted there that we should see what happens and go from there. I have seen nothing change except for more to be banned. They just don't get it.

Let's just stay here and at 944hybrids and be done with it. Doug had a good thing going there but things change and it's time to move on.

[v8carreragts]

Dont fool yourself, RH is on both of the new boards also and probably do what it thinks it needs to do to protect its property. The question will be , "what IS RH property and what is us cobbling together parts to build great cars?".

Expuppy, they can be deleted here just as easily as they deleted people at PHB. There is nothing they can do about others making their own parts or stopping others from selling parts. They can try, but they cannot stop it. They don't have any basis to stop it, even legally. I built my first car long before RH existed and have all of my dated paperwork, sketches, drawings from then. As I said on the PHB, they don't have a leg to stand on because I pioneered this swap. There are also many that have also done it before RH. There was a company that built v6 swap kits called Hybrid Cars. They were also there before RH. There is also a company that has been doing 911/914 v8 swaps long before RH, Rod Simpsons Hybrids. There is another now that is called Desert Hybrids. There was another too called Jadcar, I think, (I would need to look for the info I'm not positive of the name) they made a input shaft adapter that slipped onto the Porsche input shaft and had the Chevy spline and pilot tip on it.

I don't believe, at this point, that PHB is worth anything anynmore. Yes, some new boards have sprung up but how is that bad? They have already attracted members that were not on the PHB.

[craighardy]

I checked the board after a couple PM’s when Admin took it over. Made a comment or two and guess what my build thread, the one about a different approach to a kit and the web site thread were all deleted. The engineering company could care less, but I think it is pretty chicken sh** that the new owners not only deleted the threads with original design parts in them but any threads that even hinted at another parts builder. For remnants to my vendor thread see it under “944 Barebones Kit Vendor (http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2256&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)” Shady really shady. No warning no nothing just BAM deleted and banned.

Feel free to post any info you want about this kit on Hybrid9s.

I haven't really commented on this subject yet but here it goes. I have no problems with RH, they have always been great to me. I do however have a problem with the way that some of the members were treated on the other board. I don't believe gt1scca or the "Barebones Kit Vender" copied anything. They put their time in to develop these parts just like any other fabricator has.

Craig

[944hybrids]

Thanks, I feel the same way. Even though it has been called a copy, The parts that are on this forum and 944hybrids, they should be called improvements! The parts we have posted are changed for the better and have fixed a few problems found in the RH stuff. Either Rh is to busy or just doesn't care to fix even the minor stuff.

[Dawgz83948]

They are trying to protect something that is not theirs to protect. How can you say that they own sole rights to conversion parts for LS/LT1 and 944's? You can't. Copying their product would be wrong, but designing your own, even if it looks similar is not wrong or illegal.

[PorscheHybrids]

Lots of points to address, but it's monday, so I'll just hit a couple to try to clear things up.

There is no ban-fest or deleteathon going on. I haven't even banned gt1scca when he re-registered with a new name shortly after all this started. He's kind of spamming the board at this point, but he's been civil, so I left it up.

expuppy was not banned. He requested that his gallery be removed and said he didn't want anything further to do with the board, so I simply disabled the account. I also offered to re-enable the account if he'd like.

Finally, mikeyqs10, I can only assume you are Carguy944. If you aren't then forgive the assumption. That's the only other user that was banned.

Carguy944 was not banned for any previous posting, alternative solutions, etc. It's convenient that he's playing the victim, but it's not even remotely true. I just looked it up in the archives, and it's the first time I've seen that thread. Carguy944 was removed because try as he might, he just couldn't manage to communicate in a manner that I could leave posted and he did it repeatedly. I'd post quotes, but it would all be a bunch of asterisks.

So I can see why it would look like I'm out there ruling with an iron fist, but read through the recent posts and you'll see that I've left it up, the good, bad, and virtually all of the ugly.

[gt1scca]

I haven't even banned gt1scca when he re-registered with a new name shortly after all this started. He's kind of spamming the board at this point, but he's been civil, so I left it up.Well, it seems you have an interest in me for what reason? You have my posts, why would you be concerned with me now? You must have a plan that will in some way benefit RH...

[Artistic license is about all you have to be careful of with my drawings, and that is not easy to pursue judgment against. Not worth the trouble and expense, so all of it was posted freely. And as far as spamming the board...I posted 1 link recently - once again, a benefit for those seeking information..]

Your interest...
Let's hear it.

[expuppy]

Admin Steve,

I know its a fine point but i didnt say i didnt want to be associated with that board. I said i didnt want to be associated with you. Your style of ban without warning, delete posts without consulting anyone etc, rubs me and maybe others the wrong way. You may mean it to come through as composed or "in charge" in some way, but for my way of seeing it, it comes through as arrogant and condescending. None of us here care how many hybrids you have seen. None of us care how many years you have been doing it. We care that there used to be a board where a free exchange of ideas where we all met and helped each other is now dead because you and RH decided to stealthily take control of the board and do pretty much as you pleased without considering what we would think and do about it.

The guys who visit this board are NOT the types you run over. We are fiercely passionate about our cars and our ideas and neither will be cast aside by the likes of you or anyone else. I have seen you post rationale and even thoughtful things. Mostly i have seen you post about justifying your actions in 'controlling' our board.

To the others who visit this board: i apologize for harping and bitching, but I want PHB to understand that we are not stupid, that pulling my user off the board was not done in any way to convenience me, or at my request. It was done emotionally and in a way to "put me in my place". At least thats how i see it. I asked to have my gallery removed, we exchanged words over at this board, he deleted my account on that board. We are not that stupid Steve. You did it as an act of authority and it foreshadows how you have and will continue to run that board.

My car is built. I dont need the tech advice. I feel the need to contribute to the guys that are building their cars if i can. I dont feel the need to come here and have a 10 day argument about a couple of guys trying to make us believe that they didnt make huge errors relative to our forum. The errors were made, you know they were made. How about putting some of that energy into rectifying them?

[suboptimalfit]

:mad:Xpup, you are not alone, I feel the same way, they can't leave well enough alone. It was mentioned "picking until infected"- well the cancer has followed us over here has'nt it. Two boards down... And no the 928 hardcore are not still over there.

[craighardy]

I wouldn't call this board down. At least I hope you guys don't feel that way. PorscheHybrids and everyone else for that matter has stayed on topic and as long as that is the case I don't see a problem here. Like I said earlier, this discussion will stay in this thread only.

Craig

[suboptimalfit]

What I meant was the "original" hybrids board,and our "old" board. Sorry if I got you all worked up,not my intention at all. :o

[craighardy]

Oh, ok I get it. Sorry it's late and I'm tired!

[expuppy]

Ok, guys. I had a long conversation with RH and they seem to sincerely want to get the PHB back on its feet. In short, we all think that they were deleting posts to suppress competition and the exchange of free ideas. There were some other more subtle legal issues going on that were not discussed which caused most of us to jump to the conclusions that they were being extremely heavy-handed with the administration of the PHB. They floated an idea which i think we should consider.

They would like to return control of the board to a group of us that we name. That group would have to agree on any edits or actions taken against posters. RH would like to be ONE seat on that board, since they own the board and some of the things that have been posted in the past could get the board in trouble with various commercial interests ( NOT RH). I stated that my goal was to get us back on one board, since splitting us into three has, I believe, caused less total postiing and interaction of the community. The PHB is where brand new people go, and as such, would seem to me to be a good place for us all to post, but i am just one of many and am sure some of the more fervent RH haters will give a big hell no to the idea. I am probably too hot-headed to be a moderator at the new PHB but can think of several of the old-timers and a few of the new guys that would be really good at this. What do you guys think? Before anyone fires up the flamethrower and tries to paint me as "in the tank" etc for any one group, rest assured that i dont have a dog in the fight. My car is built, my knowledge of the cars is at a level where i really dont need a forum to get or exchange ideas. I want one board because i remember the camraderie and utility of the PHB when i was building my car. I could just as easily say screw it and go hang out on college football boards for the camraderie at this point. Lets be adults and try to figure this out.

[Jim7]

The fragmenting of the knowledge is indeed a negative and considering the whole reason for a board is to exchange the experiences and information of the community then a single site would be best.

I am in the midst of my build and it is only that i know who and what resource is on what and where that I am able to navigate around finding what I need to know.

I could live with a democratic PH, as long as the rules were clearly posted, in, for lack of a better term, a binding constitution.

[mikeyqs10]

Renegade made a bad investment in a marketing method that blew up, and now they want a bail out.
They have figured out that they have real competition and people do not need to turn to them for expert advice. They added further damage to what reputation they had. They of all people, living in Las Vegas should understand that when you gamble sometimes you loose.
We all understand a strong sense of community, members helping members. Without a vendor neutral forum I would have never had the balls to convert my daily driver s10 to a V8.
Moral of the story is you had a girlfriend that literally screwed a few of your friends. A month later she figured out she can’t pay rent and now wants you back, Do you go?

And why are people using someone else’s forum to hash RH problems. They need to open an open post section on theirs.

[expuppy]

I understand that some will never trust RH completely. The idea that is being considered doesnt require that you trust them. The community will be in control of the board. Isnt that what we want? RH will not use the board as a sales tool. I can state that with some certainty. They also will not be able to squash free exchange of ideas. Isnt that what we want? My fear is that the emotions will overide the logical things that we need to do to get us all back on one forum. I would love to have ALL of us back on one board.

[mikeyqs10]

From my point of view the people that want to be close to thier conversion pals are here or on 944.

Why would anyone, using good logic, want to get back on the Tiatanic? It has sunk the damage is done.

Even as you personally have been in talks with them they continue to delete posts. It is a awesome resource for tech right till they got involved. Now it is just an archive. Same with thier board, deader that Elvis.

[mikeyqs10]

Like my pappy used to say:

Son, you have beat that dead horse long enough, the meat is tender. Now fire up the grill. LETS EAT

[expuppy]

mikey,

As i have stated, my only goals are to get us back in one forum. I dont have an emotional axe to grind against RH and there IS a reason to consider that as the one board. When doing a google search, it is the one that comes up. It is where new people go to find out about our cars. Before you pontificate to me how google works, i know that can change, but right now, people still wander in off the street over there. I have no problem with it being this board or the other board either.

To fix this we have to do more than beat our chests or fire of inciendary posts. If anyone has a better idea how to reunite us, i am all ears. As far as your titantic analogy, boards dont sink, boards are really nothing other than the name that people find when they search. The boards are made up of the members and we now have 3 very incomplete ones. We can bitch about it, or we can listen intelligently to ideas how to fix it. This is my idea how to fix it and what i am hearing is that you are opposed to it because of what happened in the past few weeks over there. The story as told on the boards is a little different than is actually true. Would be happy to discuss it with you and see if you can see it differently. My office number is 937.778.4242.

[mikeyqs10]

How about this for a "fix", it is litterly a 60 second fix or a 5 minute phone call.

Have all traffic(searchers) redirected here. It is called domain forwarding.

Then leave the other board as is an locked from further posts but accessable at archive.porschhybrids.com called a "A" record or HOST name.

Simple an easy. If someone types in www.porschehybrids.com (http://www.porschehybrids.com) or find it on a google search they land here.

[Porch]

There's no reason to go back to that board. Why anyone would even bother with the old board is beyond me. RH wanted it, RH got it. They can keep it.

I won't even consider returning to the old board. People have already made copies of the old board, so as far as i'm concerned they can just delete it and we can re-post all the information on here (or the other board).

Hell, we've even got a "sponsor" on this board that has everything needed for the swap...

If anyone has a better idea how to reunite us, i am all ears.
Sure. All we need to do is take a vote between this board and the other new board as to which one we'd like to keep. I'll gladly post on whichever one gets decided on! :)

As for googling, that will change with time.

[dallas]

I'm getting a no on going back also. Especially since he wants to sit on the board. I admit a lot of good data is lost , but the knowledge of the people remain. I don't care for the multiple board thing either, but believe it might meld into one board over time. Like a good bar. Being in the middle of a conversion myself I'd like to see 1 board also. But not with anything to do with rh.

[expuppy]

ok guys. i understand and cant blame any of you one bit. I find myself saddened and frustrated that one good board became three slow ones. As i said, the old boards were helpful because the friendships developed kept the guys who had built cars talking to those of us building them. I no longer enjoy this and will probably find somewhere else to hang and check back in a few months to see if the turmoil has given way to common sense. I may check occasionally at PHB if anyone gets stuck for something that I may help with. ciao.

[Porch]

To be honest, phb was always a slow board compared to the other boards i post on.

So i think we really just ended up with two slow(er) boards, and one archive board. I do hope eventually we can join up into one, but i don't think it'll ever be hoppin'!

[speedracing944]

2 boards independently operated is better than 1 board owned by RH.

Speedy:)

[Destroker]

WTF?

I start to drag out a neglected project and check to see what is going on at the old board and just about smash my keyboard. Glad to see this one. Thanks to who ever started it. Is Doug around?

[maxwedge528]

well after reading all of this i am still confused as to where to go for info and traffic about conversion projects. i have a sbc conversion in a 911 and am considering a lsx conversion. i will use some rh parts and some of my own, much as i did with the sbc conversion. so my question is...what forum can i go to for past and current conversion ideas? rh forums are dead and have been for a long time and there does not seem to be much traffic on this forum..believe it or not, i have been following similar projects on pelican porsche forum and lots of those members have little or no tolerance for such projects! thank you, maxwedge528

[944hybrids]

Max, I hate to come in here and hijack this thread, but you might want to visit us at http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/forum.htm
We don't have many 911's , but we do have the best information on the internet. And it is always getting better.
Eric

[maxwedge528]

thanks eric!

[andy1]

You might also try the LS1Tech forums; I seem to recal 3 or 4 911 conversions if you do a search.

Andy1